Day 2: TALK STORY: From Ashes to Allies: Local Government Leaders Discuss Mutual Aid and Best Practices Post-Megafires
“There’s no greater power, no greater strength, and no greater drive to persevere than when you’re fighting for your family and you’re fighting for your home, even in the face of insurmountable odds.” —Josiah Nishita
“We were the home to the most disastrous wildfire at the time, and that’s one of those titles that you don’t want, but at the same time you don’t want to lose it, because that means that somebody else has gone through something worse than you.” —Paul Lowenthal
“That trust with someone that had gone through it and built it before was so necessary. As a new community going through this, you don’t know who to trust.” —John Smith
“We learned some lessons the hard way, but other communities don’t have to. We continue to pay it forward. We continue to help others. That is our mission, that is our goal.” —Scott Westrope
2024 WILDFIRE LEADERSHIP SUMMIT
Mutual aid is a critical component of effective disaster recovery. By sharing resources, expertise, and lessons learned, communities can bounce back faster and stronger in the face of catastrophic events. Mutual support is the foundation for building resilience and restoring hope.
In this episode, we hear from Josiah Nishita, the Managing Director for Maui County, John Smith, the Public Works Highways Division Chief of Maui, Scott Westrope, the Fire Chief for the City of Santa Rosa, and Paul Lowenthal, the Deputy Fire Chief for the City of Santa Rosa.
From navigating the complexities of debris removal and infrastructure repair to fostering community engagement and maintaining resilience, this panel shares invaluable insights on the power of mutual aid and how to do it right. Don’t miss this episode to learn how collaboration and shared experiences can transform disaster recovery.
Highlights:
- 01:26 Maui: Where We Were and How Far We’ve Come
- 05:20 The Day After the Horrifying August 8th
- 09:57 One Year After
- 14:43 Fighting For Our Home
- 19:47 Facing the Unexpected
- 22:58 Connecting Sta Rosa with Maui
- 29:07 The Importance of Building Trust
- 33:54 Build Relationships Early
- 37:31 Pay It Forward
Twitter:
Mutual aid is a game-changer in disaster recovery. Hear how Maui and Santa Rosa teamed up to navigate the complexities of wildfire rebuilding with Maui County’s Josiah Nishita and John Smith and Sta Rosa City’s Paul Lowenthal and Scott Westrope. #Recover #Rebuild #Reimagine #podcast #wildfire #DisasterRecovery #AfterTheFire #2024WildfireLeadershipSummit #MutualAid #CommunityResilience #LessonsLearned #DisasterResponse #WildfireRecovery #HousingCrisis #InfrastructureRepair #CommunityOutreach #PayItForward
Quotes:
01:33 “Maui wouldn’t be where we are today if those who had come before us hadn’t reached out and provided assistance. We’re standing on the shoulders of giants who have come before us.” —Josiah Nishita
08:18 “We do fail as leaders and when things do go wrong let’s be accountable for that and then demonstrate to the community how we can do better and we will do better moving forward.” —Josiah Nishita
13:40 “Hopefulness is what’s going to keep our people home. But we must remember what the basic needs of our residents are and what they don’t and do have. To help them dream and hope again, we have to find ways to help them meet that.” —Josiah Nishita
14:27 “ Our greatest asset is our people. That’s why we will measure success by being able to keep our people at home. And we will rebuild and recover with and for our people.” —Josiah Nishita
15:18 “There’s no greater power, no greater strength, and no greater drive to persevere than when you’re fighting for your family and you’re fighting for your home, even in the face of insurmountable odds.” —Josiah Nishita
24:20 “We were the home to the most disastrous wildfire at the time, and that’s one of those titles that you don’t want, but at the same time you don’t want to lose it, because that means that somebody else has gone through something worse than you.” —Paul Lowenthal
27:11 “That trust with someone that had gone through it and built it before was so necessary. As a new community going through this, you don’t know who to trust.” —John Smith
29:32 “While we thought our relationships were good, they can always be better.” —Scott Westrope
33:26 “You build that trust, that esprit de corps is going to pay dividends in the end.” —Scott Westrope
39:00 “We learned some lessons the hard way, but other communities don’t have to. We continue to pay it forward. We continue to help others. That is our mission, that is our goal.” —Scott Westrope
Meet the Moderator
Reva Feldman, Former City Manager, Malibu (2016-2021) / Advisor, After the Fire USA
Reva Feldman has more than twenty years of experience in public service. She has been with the City since 2005, serving as the Assistant City Manager and Administrative Services Director before her appointment as City Manager in May 2016. Reva brings with her strong leadership skills, knowledge, experience, and a deep dedication to the community.
Meet the Panel:
Paul Lowenthal, Deputy Fire Chief, City of Santa Rosa
Paul Lowenthal is the Division Chief Fire Marshal for the city of Santa Rosa. He’s been involved in fire and disaster recovery since 2017 when he first led the Debris Task Force for the city of Santa Rosa, following the Tubbs fire and Nuns Fire. In 2020 Paul played a key role in coordinating recovery after the Glass Fire. More recently, Paul has been assisting with recovery in Maui County. He’s a board member of the Fire Safe Council for Sonoma County. He managed the development of the Santa Rosa vegetation management program and the vegetation management ordinance. He also has helped develop the city’s community wildfire protection plan.
Scott Westrope, Fire Chief, City of Santa Rosa
Scott Westrope is the Fire Chief for the city of Santa Rosa. He began his fire service in San Luis Obispo County, first with a Pismo Beach Fire Department and then with San Luis Obispo County. He came to Santa Rosa in 2000 and has held the ranks of firefighter, paramedic, Captain, training captain, battalion chief and Deputy Fire Chief. He became the interim fire chief in 2020 and fire chief in 2021. He holds a bachelor’s degree in emergency services management and is a state of California Certified Chief Officer. He sits on the board for REDCOM, he is the Vice President of the Sonoma County Fire Chiefs Association, represents all of the cities on the Sonoma County Fire Service working group, is the Area Director for the California Fire Chiefs Association and serves as Sonoma County’s Operational Area Coordinator.
John Smith, Highways Chief, County of Maui
John Smith is the Public Works Highways Division Chief for Maui County. He is a seasoned engineering professional with over 22 years of experience in infrastructure design, construction, and maintenance. He manages all operations and provides oversight for personnel and program budgets regarding county roadway systems. John now serves as the CO lead for the Office of Recovery, infrastructure recovery support function, and leads all fire debris removal efforts while restoring critical services such as clean drinking water, sanitary sewer, and electricity. John holds a Bachelor of Science in Civil Engineering from Ohio University and is a registered professional engineer.
Josiah Nishita, Managing Director, County of Maui: Office of the Mayor
Josiah Nishita is the managing director for the county of Maui. He has played a crucial role in leading Maui’s disaster recovery efforts following the devastating wildfires that impacted the island in August 2023. Josiah has demonstrated exceptional leadership in coordinating the county’s response and recovery operations, including establishing emergency shelters, facilitating debris removal, and restoring critical infrastructure. He has also been instrumental in fostering strong partnerships with other communities and organizations to leverage mutual aid and best practices. His dedication to supporting the Maui community through this challenging time has been widely recognized, and he continues to be a driving force in the county’s ongoing recovery and resilience efforts.
Connect with the County of Maui:
- Website: https://www.mauicounty.gov/
Connect with the City of Sta Rosa:
- Website: https://www.srcity.org/
Transcription:
Josiah Nishita: I am the Managing Director for the County of Maui. Well, thank you very much. I did have somebody ask me yesterday. Wow, you guys brought a lot of people from Maui over here. And what I did share with them is, the last time that I came to California on my own, I’m not sure how many of you have been in meetings before. There’s a lot of jobs and responsibilities to be given out, and the person not in the room gets assigned to them. The last time I came to California by myself, I became the head of recovery operations for the largest and most complex wildfire disaster, potentially in US history. So I made sure to bring the entire team with me. We’re all in the same room, and I can keep an eye on them. But really kidding aside, the Mayor mentions this all the time that this truly will be some of the most important professional work that we will ever do in our lifetime. And I believe that’s true for us. I believe that’s true for all of you here today, and we’re just so honored that our community has entrusted us with the opportunity to help them recover throughout this process. It’s so fitting for this segment of the conference that we’re going to talk about mutual aid and best practices in working together.
But truly, Maui wouldn’t be where we are today if those who had come before us really hadn’t reached out and provided assistance. We’re really standing on the shoulders of giants who have come before us. So for that, we’re truly, deeply thankful and appreciative for everything. And I’ll try to briefly cover some things where we were, and how far we’ve come based on the assistance of others. But I’m unfortunately not going to be able to cover everything that has happened in mind, all the good work for many organizations like Lahaina Strong, like Good360, like GEM and others, CNHA and others, HCF, many other organizations that have done so much. There’s just not enough time to cover everything, but we do express our appreciation and respect to all of the organizations that have stood up over time to assist us. So on August 8, 2023, Maui faced three major fires at once, endangering Kihei, causing severe damage in Kula, and devastating Lahaina. We had multiple evacuations occurring simultaneously throughout the different parts of the island, including our own emergency shelters in Lahaina and Kihei that were threatened by additional fires that day. These wildfires scorched roughly 6,600 acres, impacted about 2,200 structures, and displaced around 12,000 people. Mayor didn’t mention this in opening remarks to the conference. 102 lives were lost that day, and we still have two individuals missing. And as much as Maui has grown over the years, and it has grown a lot, we’re still such a close knit Island community.
We all lost family, friends, loved ones and coworkers that day. Teams from across the nation came to assist in search and rescue and recovery efforts, including K9 and recovery units. Law enforcement agencies assisted with identification and managed the list of missing individuals, which exceeded 3,000 and immediate aftermath of the disaster. Hazardous Material work was completed in December 2023 clearing 1,374 residential, and 74 commercial properties. 13 shipping containers of hazardous materials were then transported off of Maui for safe disposal, which also included one of the largest solar and electric vehicle battery removal and decommissioning efforts in the nation. Upon completion of these phase one operations, the county shifted its focus to implementing a phase re-entry program to allow residents to safely return to their homes and property for the first time following the devastating wildfire. We had a tremendous amount of help from Cal OES, CAL FIRE, California Highway Patrol and many others. One in the detailed planning of the effort, completing over 2,600 structural safety assessments to facilitate secure re entry, as well as assistance in our EOC and planning, and standing up the reentry program, we issued over 5,600 passes to grant residents access to properties within the restricted disaster area. And many organizations, wonderful organizations from across our county and the nation volunteered for sifting mental health support, childcare, refreshments and the like to assist our families in their re-entry process.
In the immediate response to the wildfires, congregate shelters were established. Donation food, counseling and Family Assistance Centers were stood up, and even moved thousands of tourists from West Maui into rental cars during this period. The Immunity really united and transported truckloads of food and critical supplies to West Maui by sea and air. Re-establishing critical lifelines such as fuel stations became urgent, and the county launched fuel distribution and relief efforts until those community lifelines were restored a few days later. The day after August 8, the first food distribution center was established, and soon led to a statewide effort for food and supply distributions, and the creation of multiple distribution hubs throughout Maui. Both government and community run. There are still community food and supply distribution hubs in Maui operating today. More than a year later, amid the influx of resources, the Kako’o Resource Center was established to help survivors navigate relief resources. Our community also included our state and local legislative leaders who helped provide a lot of assistance in providing community feedback, resources, funding and other items that were needed during that time as a result of the disaster.
Thousands of residents were left without housing, and the Red Cross and the county immediately established congregate shelters. And soon, FEMA, Red Cross and others helped to stand up a non congregation sheltering program accommodating up to 8,000 survivors who could not return to their homes. The Office of Recovery was established to address both intermediate and long term disaster recovery needs. In collaboration with the Office of Recovery, Mayor Bissen formed an advisory team composed of Lahaina residents. Pictured here is the original group, which has grown and changed over time. This team works to ensure that the community’s needs and desires are integral to the county’s discussions and decisions to facilitate public communication. mauirecovers.org was launched as a comprehensive online resource. And really, shout out to a lot of the communities that helped us. Many of the websites, documents, templates that we use throughout this process to really get ahead to where we are today were provided by them as assistance for us. Following the devastating wildfire in Lahaina, King Kamehameha lll Elementary School was destroyed.
And in response, the USACE in partnership with FEMA and the state of Hawaii undertook the design, and oversight of the King Kamehameha lll temporary school. This educational facility designed to accommodate 600 students began construction at the end of 2023, and welcomed its first students and staff in April 2024. The next major phase of the recovery effort was removing debris through the consolidated Debris Removal Program. A crucial component of this operation was creating a temporary disposal site, or temporary debris storage site designed with stringent standards. The TDS ensured the secure containment of any hazardous materials. Construction of the TDS began on October 23, and the facility was operational and ready to accept debris by January 2024. And trust me, we could give a whole session on this on what to do and what not to do in terms of community buy-in, and there’s a lot of talk about leadership. A part of that is just acknowledging and recognizing when we do fail as leaders, and when things do go wrong is being accountable for that. And then demonstrating to the community how we can do better and we will do better moving forward.
The county committed to conducting weekly disaster recovery community meetings to update residents on recovery progress, including debris removal efforts, and to distribute informational materials. These meetings also offered a chance for residents to interact directly with operations staff and county officials. Additionally, neighborhood workshops, small groups, focus groups and individual meetings occurred throughout, weekly meetings in Lahaina are still ongoing. And the totality of community outreach, from what we’ve heard from many partners, represents some of the largest community outreach ever done post disaster. In October 2023, the county initiated the collection of rights of entry forms. As a result, 100% of eligible properties in Kula have joined the consolidated Debris Removal Program. And 99% of eligible properties in Lahaina have also enrolled. Phase two of the debris removal operations commenced in January 2024, and is projected to conclude by January 2025. As of the first week of September, 100% of residential debris, and 59% of commercial debris have been removed. The wildfires also resulted in substantial pressure loss and heat damage to pipes in the affected areas. Working in conjunction with the county and state, the EPA conducted sampling and testing, and it helped us isolate the water system from fire damaged structures to prevent contamination. Sampling operations began in February 2024.
And by August 2024, the Department of Water Supply declared Lahaina’s public water system safe to drink after sampling over 1,300 laterals, and conducting various isolation efforts on the system. Including cutting and capping affected lines. The fire also caused significant damage to the wastewater system affecting essential pump stations. In March 2024, 97,749 linear feet of sewer lines in Lahaina were cleared and inspected, enabling the county of Maui to prioritize emergency repairs. And as of September 2024, approximately 60% of the affected county sewer system has been restored. The county is shooting to restore our remaining wastewater service by the end of this year. We did have 4Leaf up a little bit earlier. And with support from them, as well as our folks from Santa Rosa and Sonoma counties, the county launched an expedited permitting system to assist residents in applying for disaster recovery building permits. The initial recovery permitting center opened in Kahului on April 29, and the first permit for rebuilding Alina residents destroyed in the August 8 wildfire was issued on May 15. A second satellite location commenced operations on July 1.
And as of September 6, a total of 187 permits have been submitted, with 68 already issued. One of the common things we heard from all communities when we talked to them about recovering from a wildfire was the number one issue that your community is going to face is housing, and that really proved to be the case in Maui too. A very interesting stat that Maui has that many other communities don’t face is, of our displaced residents, 90% were renters, and 10% were homeowners. And generally in other communities, that’s kind of flipped the other way. That’s really made us, FEMA and other partners kind of rethink the model and programs in which we provide assistance to others. Grow of insight recently conducted a survey involving 2,097 residents of Maui County, including 1,105 individuals directly affected by the fires. The survey revealed that 18% of fire impacted participants reported having an immediate family member who has left Maui, while 81% had a friend who had departed the Island. Additionally, 45% of those affected by the fires have considered relocating away from Maui.
I did have the opportunity to meet ICON last year at the National Association of Counties conference. I think one thing I really took away from that conference last year, immediately prior to the wildfire, is the story that we heard related to housing. And it was in one of the sessions, this group from Texas kind of shared one of the things that happened to them, that they held a public and community meeting and really tried to inspire hope into people. And they talked about the American dream and how anything is possible with the American dream if you just put your hard work into it. You give a lot of work ethic, you get a good education, you put your mind to it? Anything is possible, and all your dreams can come true. And in that meeting, a lady stood up in the back and raised her hand, and they called on her and she said, if I don’t have a safe and secure place to lay my head at night, how do you expect me to dream? And the answer to that is, we can’t expect our community to be able to have hope and dream for the future, and we have a simple success metric for our recovery operations. And that’s really to keep our people at home. We want to keep our community intact.
And Jennifer, I really appreciated that quote about hopefulness is adversarial. Lies waste to cynicism. Hopefulness is really what’s going to keep our people home. But all of us, not just from Maui, but from other areas, must we remember what the basic needs of our residents are? What they don’t and do have? And to help them dream and hope again, we have to find ways to help them meet that. So regarding the resilience of the community, I would put up Lahaina and our Lahaina residents against really any other community in the entire world. No other community is more resilient than Lahaina. We have a saying in Hawaii, and it’s used around the world that is Maui no ka oi. Essentially meaning, Maui is the best. But what makes Maui the best? Objectively, it is the best, by the way. I’m sorry to everyone else. But what makes it the best is our people. Our greatest asset is our people. That’s why we will measure success by being able to keep our people at home. And we will rebuild and recover for our people. No one else. We aren’t rebuilding Lahaina for anyone else, but for the people who made it so special. Recently, my son has been asking me about a lot of the wars that are happening around the country, like between Russia and Ukraine. And even wars of old Vietnam. And one of his main questions to me is, why can’t these larger countries with more resources, more. Military personnel, more equipment. Why can’t they beat these smaller countries with less resources, less equipment, more easily? Like, why is it taking so long? Or, why does all this stuff keep happening? And I told him that, there’s likely a variety of reasons that impact this. But primarily to me, it is because there’s no greater power, no greater strength, and no greater drive to persevere when you’re fighting for your family, and you’re fighting for your home even in the face of insurmountable odds.
So in closing, I say this to all of our Hawaii Ohana and many of you, I would include in that, for all the assistance and resources you’ve helped us to provide. But I really know, I truly know that we will be successful even when success appears to be out of reach. I know that we will continue to fight and persevere even in the face of insurmountable odds. And I know that each and every one of us will never give in, and never give up in this effort because we are fighting for our home. We are fighting for our local families. And I hope that we always remember that in everything that we do. So thank you for giving me the time to share with you all today. We’re looking forward to the discussion ahead about mutual aid and best practices, and I’m happy to join this wonderful panel here today. Thank you, Jen.
Reva Feldman: Thank you, Josiah. I think the way you closed is very meaningful and really encompasses everything that we all have felt about your community. Nice to see everyone again. We’ll get you through this, and then you get lunch. I am honored to sit on the panel, From Ashes to Allies: Local Government Leaders Discuss Mutual Aid and Best Practices Post-Megafires.
I’d like to start by introducing our panel, Scott Westtrope is the Fire Chief for the city of Santa Rosa. He began his fire service in San Luis Obispo County, first with a Pismo Beach Fire Department and then with San Luis Obispo County. He came to Santa Rosa in 2000, and has held the ranks of firefighter, paramedic, Captain, training captain battalion chief, and Deputy Fire Chief. He became the interim fire chief in 2020, and fire chief in 2021. He holds a bachelor’s degree in Emergency Services Management, and is a state of California Certified Chief Officer. He sits on the board for REDCOM. Is the vice president of the Sonoma County Fire Chiefs Association, represents all of the cities on the Sonoma County Fire Service working group, he’s the Area Director for the California Fire Chiefs Association, and serves as Sonoma County’s Operational Area Coordinator. So he’s pretty busy.
Paul Lowenthal in the middle is the Division Chief Fire Marshal for the city of Santa Rosa. He’s been involved in fire and disaster recovery since 2017 when he first led the Debris Task Force for the city of Santa Rosa following the Tubbs fire and Nuns fires. In 2020, Paul played a key role in coordinating recovery after the Glass fire. More recently, Paul has been assisting with recovery in Maui County. He’s a board member for the fire safe council for Sonoma County. He managed the development of the Santa Rosa Vegetation Management Program, and of the Vegetation Management Ordinance. He also has helped develop the city’s community wildfire protection plan. And thank you, Paul, for the help that you’ve been providing to our friends in Maui.
John Smith is the Public Works highways Division Chief for Maui County. He is a seasoned engineering professional with over 22 years of experience in infrastructure design, construction and maintenance. He manages all operations and provides oversight for personnel and program budgets regarding county roadway systems. John now serves as the CO lead for the Office of Recovery, infrastructure recovery support function. Leads all fire debris removal efforts while restoring critical services such as clean drinking water, sanitary sewer and electricity. John holds a Bachelor of Science in Civil Engineering from Ohio University, and is a registered professional engineer.
I introduced myself earlier, again, if you weren’t in the room, Reva Feldman. I’m a retired city manager from the city of Malibu. I shared a little bit about my story, but I wanted to give you a quick rundown. I always thought I was prepared for a disaster. I had been through many disasters starting with my family losing a home in the 1993 Topanga, Malibu fire. And had been through many other FEMA disasters. We trained and practiced. Malibu seems to have a proclivity for a lot of disasters, so it was something we thought we were ready for. As a small city, I had done things like test my reverse 911 system. We had enrolled to be able to issue our own, something most cities don’t do. And then the Woolsey fire hit, and I realized that I wasn’t ready. So on Monday of the week of the fire, my day started with my Sheriff Captain having a stroke at work. He had a new number two, it was her first day on the job. And the first time I met her was via that phone call. On Tuesday, we had a statewide election and a local election. I had two city council members who were termed out, two new elected officials who had not yet been sworn in. We had a LA County Sheriff’s race with a race that was too close to call for several weeks, and a new governor who was elected but not yet sworn in.
On Wednesday, our community was impacted by a mass shooting event called the Borderline Grill Shooting. 24 people lost their lives, including a Pepperdine University student. Pepperdine is in Malibu, so my day on Thursday morning started with handling and addressing that. Then later that day, we had the Camp fire breakout in Paradise. The Hill fire broke out in the Thousand Oaks area. And at 3:00 o’clock, the Woolsey fire broke out in the hills north of Malibu. At the time that it started, it was about 30 miles away from Malibu. But we were undergoing our high wind events, the Santa Ana winds, with winds peaking up 60 and 70 miles an hour. My home is in between where the fire started and where Malibu is, and so I evacuated at midnight. Of my five council members, my Mayor was a fire captain, and he was on duty. My Mayor decided to stay and protect his home. Ended up in the ICU, almost going blind. And my third remaining council member had a mental breakdown, and we had to actually have him committed shortly after the fire. Because the fire was so large, people could not get in to assist me. I had a staff of 100, and so we were really short staffed. We had the flu go through our EOC, and it was the holidays inside, people out of town.
And so I will tell you this story. Because even when you think you’re ready, you’re not. And without mutual aid, I was going to bring it back to that, I wouldn’t have survived the aftermath of the fire. The people who came to help me, my colleagues, my fellow city managers, people from Santa Rosa, people from all over the West Coast came to help in our recovery, and so it’s a really important part of what we do. I believe in paying it forward. I do that every day. Even right now, I’ve been on the phone helping those cities that are on fire right now, and I know everybody sitting with me believes that as well. So that’s the conversation we’re going to have today of why mutual aid is so important, and how we can get it right. And I know Josiah has stories about people knocking on his door and you’re like, what do you want? I don’t need you. And how do you figure out who you do need? So I’m going to turn it over to my panelists and let them get started.
Paul Lowenthal: Hello, everybody. I’m Paul, nice to meet everybody. We’re taking the mutual aid a little bit further and incorporated it into today. I’m in my 25 years of providing mutual aid around the state, typically for wildfires. And since 2017, virtually and in person, around the state and around the western United States for post wildfire recovery, this has been by far the most unique mutual aid I’ve ever experienced. It became less about work, and more of a personal relationship. And to keep the mutual aid going, we talked about having some slides. Not to bore you before lunch, but to give us something to talk about and highlight. And during my 6th trip to Maui last week, John admitted that he was not very prepared. So I threw whoops, I threw his name. Oh, it didn’t happen. There was an updated slide that said, and John Smith, the highways chief, said this thing wants to keep moving. But this was my home away from home, and still is my home away from home.
There’s a lot of people that think that my mutual aid assignment is all about the ocean and the beach. It has been spent at John’s base yard with the chickens, and John and his team from Maui. Most people know a lot about how EOCs operate, how a joint and stick command operates, and the different task forces based on our experiences here in California. In 2017, we were the home to the most disastrous wildfire at the time. That’s one of those titles that you don’t want. But at the same time, you don’t want to lose it because that means that somebody else has gone through something worse than you. We use various forms of these communications. We understand that when we’re helping around the state how things work. And somebody from Ventura can ask me how they handled something on the Debris Task Force or through the Housing Task Force, and we know who to connect them with. But when we received the call from FEMA, and the reason we received the call from FEMA was literally, I think it was a couple months before the Maui fires federal administrator, Bob Fenton, actually reached out to us based on our experiences with all of our fires in Santa Rosa and Sonoma County. Said that he wanted to bring that team of leaders from across the country to talk about our lessons learned. I was very honest.
I told him that we had a lot of struggles with our experience at the federal level. Almost too honest. But from that, I didn’t burn the relationship. I think it has improved. I got a phone call from him saying, hey, clearly, you know what’s going on in Maui. I think we have a really unique opportunity to connect Santa Rosa with Maui. A lot of the struggles that you guys went through that you had to learn on your own, we see some very unique opportunities to implant and embed Santa Rosa team with Maui County. So Santa Rosa on the left, Maui on the right. I was tasked with my first recovery assignment. I was tasked with building a Debris Task Force, which I’m hitting back. I promise. So we’ll just let it cycle. So I sat in the back of a community room, put together a Debris Task Force on my own. And there was somebody that used the analogy of building the plane while you fly it. We truly did build the plane while we flew it because we didn’t really have anybody to lean on back then. We had tons of support in the EOC, but we lacked the support for the actual task force. The stuff that was taking place before recovery could actually start.
John Smith: I’ll just jump in, Paul. What was different in Maui that kind of shocked everybody else was, we didn’t even know what a Debris Task Force was. We didn’t know what mutual aid was. So we had all these things in that. That picture that he had with building a plane while we flew it, that very much was true. So we just took some snapshots from our situation room of where we were building org charts, and built out how we were going to do this thing while we were doing it. And I can say with authority, we couldn’t have done it without this man right here. Although I will say that this is a little bit different than I knew before. I don’t know what’s on his face. He didn’t have that before. No, just joking, Paul. I got permission to joke about that before. But the relationship that we built, and it really did become a relationship, personal relationship, we’re buddies now that trust with someone that had gone through it, and built it before was so necessary. I’m sure we can talk more about it in a little while. I don’t want to take up all of our time, but that’s really what we’re getting at here. When you’re going through this as a new community going through this, you don’t know who to trust. You’re figuring it out. But literally, thousands of people showed up. I’m sure Josiah can attest to this. They just show up at your office. I’m like, well, who’s this guy? I don’t know who this person is. But we started to find people that had been through it before, and in a similar setting, and a similar feel, and it was almost within the first minute of the conversation, like, okay, he gets it. And then you start the process.
Paul Lowenthal: One of the first things we tried to do was help organize. John, based on what we didn’t, obviously in Santa Rosa, and what a lot of other people, and what you saw is a lot of the snapshots of how I organized, and how I wanted to help John organize. But John hit on one thing, and through the mutual aid system. Again, we’re so used to it. We’re so used to our California playbook. How we helped one another that the playbook didn’t exist, and it really wasn’t fair to come over and try and force it upon them. So we had to figure out how to make what works in California work for Maui. That was the biggest take home. And having the understanding that there truly is a Hawaiian standard time understanding that the way that we do things in California can’t just be put upon a community that isn’t prepared for it. There’s just a lot that has to be done to really make sure that you’re meeting the needs of the community, and taking a lot of their feedback, and just changing the model, changing the mode, and making it work.
Reva Feldman: And if we could turn to Scott, and if you could share a few thoughts on your experience with me.
Scott Westrope: Thanks Reva. Everybody, I’m Scott Westrope. My first note down here is, don’t make fun of Paul’s mustache. So thanks, John, for taking care of that. For me, my role within the organization has been much more operationally focused. I want to hit on some of the same topics, but more of a response in organizational recovery level. And the one thing that I really want to lean into is relationships. And while we thought our relationships were good and they can always be better, I think that’s a common theme that you’re going to hear throughout the day. So the relationships we have within our department, within the city infrastructure and the city structure, the city of Santa Rosa has 1, 300 employees, and everybody’s affected in one way, or involved in one way or another. From mechanics and bus drivers, all the way up to the elected officials. Your cohort, whatever your cohort is, what is your relationship with your cohort? Are they a phone call away? And then the community. Our relationship with our community is very unique at this point, but it involves them. And looking at your community organizations, whether they’re NGOs, NPOs, faith based organizations, because everybody will be involved at some point and at some level. Or they will want to be involved at some point or some level. So the reason I kind of went deep in that list is for that point exactly. But real quick on mutual aid in the community.
So California master mutual aid is the gold standard. It’s been around since the 70’s. It works very well. FEMA’s catching up, law enforcement’s catching up, but the fire system works very well. The problem is it’s slow. The bureaucracy is slow. So my plea to you is to build those relationships early. Because when lives are threatened and homes are threatened, you have that imminent threat in your community. Help should only be a phone call away. We’ve really strengthened our relationships with our adjacent areas, and I’ve used it several times. I was en route to a fire, and I got a phone call from my CAL FIRE partner. He said, do you need help? I said, yep. Hung up the phone, and he sent resources. I called him on the way to a fire one time and said, I’ll clean it up. Do you have any airplanes on the ground? He goes, yeah. I’m like, send them on the way. That was the end of the conversation. And recently over the weekend, there was a pretty impactful fire. There was an impactful fire in Lake County, which is one of our adjacent counties. We were able to send two strike teams out of Sonoma County within moments. We worried about the people and the houses before we worried about how we were going to get paid. We can figure out all the paperwork on the back end. Have those relationships and phone numbers in your phone where you can get help coming into your community immediately.
And that’s not just for the fire service. That goes for law enforcement, county administrators, elected city managers. Have those numbers in your Rolodex and those relationships built ahead of time real quickly. On the community front, we have the fortunate or unfortunate ability within our community that we have 180,000 people within the city of Santa Rosa, or 500,000 throughout the county of Sonoma that have the little hairs on the back of their neck. So when the wind’s blowing and it’s dry, our community knows what to do. They’ve been through the exercise. When we push the evacuation warning or order button, they know what to do. You know it’s unfortunate, but we really do have that advantage. But the way to build that early on is get them involved early, whether it’s through planning or through exercises. Whatever the case may be, get your community involved early so you’re building that trust in those relationships and that muscle memory. So when the time comes, they have that ability. One of the things that we’ve worked really hard on post recovery or in the recovery process is giving the community members in those micro communities the ability to build around resiliency. And so whether it’s a medical facility or an educational facility, nursing homes or large senior living facilities, we give them the resources to take care of themselves. Because in Santa Rosa, we have 180,000 people. We’re trying to protect over 14 square miles. But 40 square miles, sorry, get my numbers confused sometimes. But we only have 10 engines and two lighter trucks in service on a day to day basis. So having the community be able to take care of themselves so they can exercise their evacuation plans. They have bus routes set up, all these things ahead of time. So you build that trust, you build that esprit de corps, it is going to pay in the end.
Reva Feldman: Great. Thank you so much. And so Josiah, I wanted to ask you a question. Because obviously, this is still fresh for you. I know that you shared with me that a lot of people just showed up to try and help. And so can you talk about some suggestions for the group listening who are helpers, and who do want to show up and help. How to do that and be effective with it, and not be in the way?
Josiah Nishita: I think a part of that is developing relationships ahead of time. I know there’s some talk about that, especially in Hawaii. I’m sure in other communities as well, really relationship driven. So having those pre existing relationships actually even helped open the door for After the Fire. We had other communities that I had just met at NACo about a month before, as well as some of our congressional members who helped provide those recommendations that opened up the opportunity for us to welcome them in. And it’s been such a beneficial partnership. But without that kind of support and pre existing relationships, it would have been fairly difficult to help navigate through all those processes given immediately after on August 9th. The wildfires haven’t even been 24 hours old, and we already had international media. We had people sneaking into the EOC. We had consultants from all over the world right at the front doorsteps, disaster chasers and whatnot, and trying to weave through who’s legit, and who’s actually there for the right purposes. It was tremendously difficult. And so really helping to have those pre existing relationships and identifying communities that have gone through this prior really helped us to weed through some of the noise.
So to say, I would just say not just because you’re up here, Reva, but I think there’s different types of assistance that can be provided as well. So what we experienced from a lot of different agencies and whatnot was offers of assistance. But what we actually needed was assistance. We didn’t need to get additional homework to do paperwork, to fill out steps and processes to work through. We needed assistance at the moment like Paul, Tennis and others who could just jump right in. And once we develop that relationship, there are resources and an asset to us. Not something that’s going to create additional work or burden for us. And then for Reva in particular, people that jumped in in the midst of everything that was happening, and then Reva and I, actually, the first time we met was in person at this conference. But I feel like I know her a lot, because we’ve had a lot of dialog and communication. I think there’s assistance that can be provided also on the ground support. And I think I really appreciated that there wasn’t any pushiness, and it just was like overall care for myself as an individual checking in every so often and whatnot. There’s other assistance that you can provide rather than on the ground support. And I think that’s really critical and appreciated.
Reva Feldman: My honor to be able to help you, and thank you. A really good lesson is that we can all just be a lifeline. You don’t actually have to be there. You can just say, I’m here if you need me. These are the things I know. These are the things I’ve witnessed. We all hate wind and sirens, so we’re all good. You know that that’s another way of helping. And all of the different sectors of response and recovery that we all touch here in this room, keep that in mind. You don’t actually have to physically be there. But you might be able to say, this is something we did. Here it is. If you need it, if you have questions, call me. If not, I understand. I think that’s a good lesson. We are running out of time, so I just wanted to ask each of you if you had any closing thoughts. Josiah, if you want to start?
Josiah Nishita: I just really want to express our appreciation as a community. We really wouldn’t be where we are today and gotten as far ahead as we have without all the support being provided by so many other communities. We did hear from Paradise really early on about how we felt like we’re being a little bit of a burden to them. They did share with us that helping others is really part of their own recovery process. And so I know from us in Maui, it’s just part of our nature. We will pay it forward into the future to other communities. We hope that disasters like this never happen again. But in reality they will. And I think just understanding that it really is going to take all of us, not just from our own state, not just from our own community, but from other areas across the country. And really across the world to have poured out their hearts and souls to us. We intend to pay that back forward into the future.
Scott Westrope: I don’t know why I have to keep talking after Josiah. But my message would be very much the same. Our mindset has been since October of 2017. And even in that month, we will continue to pay this forward, that’s why we’re still up here today. That’s why Paul’s been in Hawaii. We’ve been all over the country. That’s the relationship that we built with Malibu and Reva, don’t reinvent the wheel. There’s lived experience out there. We want to share. We want to make it easier. We learned some lessons the hard way, but other communities don’t have to so we’re still dedicated to that. As the fire chief, and I know my boss is here and she’s approved, it is that we continue to pay it forward. We continue to help others. That is our mission, that is our goal, and that’s what we’re going to be. So one thing that I just want to briefly touch on, I know we’re over time, the behavioral health of your team, however big your team is, I can spend a whole hour talking about that, but set those mechanisms up ahead of time. And that’s something we’d be willing to help with. So you can reach out to us. But the behavioral health of not only your organization, however big that is, but the community is vital, and something we’re still seeing effects of. And so we can talk more about that offline, if you’d like.
Paul Lowenthal: Scott hit on two points. Mutual aid can come in multiple forms. It can be literally not reinventing the wheel or lessons learned. And that was really what we were trying to highlight. It could be as simple as giving our Sonoma County recovers, which is a joint website between Santa Rosa and the county that we literally came over. Gave Maui county a copy of. We did it to Paradise. So a lot of these tools are in place, or it could be the lessons learned. And that’s what I think helped John the most. A lot of things that went wrong in the city, we were able to help tell them. Telling them that you’re gonna have a commercial vehicle issue with all your dump trucks, Your storm drains are going to turn into little sinkholes. You’re going to have to have a place that you’re going to need to put all your burned vehicles. John almost described it as basically, it’s a crystal ball, and that’s truly what the mutual aid felt like for him. It was a crystal ball. And to be able to forecast the future and know that there are resources and tools to help them get through every step of the way.
John Smith: And I couldn’t think of a better term than crystal ball, but it is as close to seeing into the future as you can get. Having someone at the right level that’s done the same thing that you’ve done, not that far removed from it, really. And so we’re still looking, we’re still leaning in. And I echo what Josiah said, we look forward to the day when Maui can pay it forward and pay it back. We’re still in it, but I’m sure we’ll get there. So thank you guys.
Reva Feldman: Thank you all for what you shared, and thank you for helping each other. Thank you for helping me when I needed it. The thing I learned from Santa Rosa is debris removal is a bad word. And it sure is. So that was my big takeaway. But I wanted to thank all of you for your years of service in helping yourselves, your community and each other. Thank you.