Day 2: TALK STORY: Rebuilding Stronger: Climate Resilience with Equity and Community at the Center

 

“You got to be able to get out there and be able to assess the situation, not only from the building standpoint but the infrastructure standpoint, so that your decision-makers have the opportunity to make decisions and know what’s facing them in terms of their top priorities.” —Karl Fippinger

 

“An authentic leader who’s vulnerable and who’s willing to talk about their feelings and let it show— that’s so important to me as a resident as well as a follower of that leader.” —Jane Riley

 

“One day, we can stop talking about rebuilding after wildfires, and talk more about preventing. But we have huge land management issues, and when we start solving that, we can avoid some of these disasters.” —Mike Renner

 

2024 WILDFIRE LEADERSHIP SUMMIT

 

Rebuilding after a wildfire is an immense challenge for any community. Navigating the complex web of building codes, regulations, and infrastructure issues requires resilience, creativity, and a deep understanding of the unique needs of each affected area. Restoring a sense of home and normalcy in the wake of such devastation is a monumental task that demands the collective efforts of leaders, experts, and the community itself.

In this discussion, we are joined by Jane Riley, the Director of Advance Planning and Housing at 4Leaf Inc.; Mike Renner, the Director of Development Recovery Services at 4Leaf Inc.; and  Karl Fippinger, the Vice President of Fire and Disaster Mitigation at ICC

Tune in as Jane, Mike, and Karl delve into the role of building codes for resilience and disaster mitigation, the power of showing empathy in communicating rebuilding requirements to traumatized communities, the qualities of an effective leader in post-disaster, the importance of prevention in building a more resilient future, plus much more. 

 

Highlights:

  • 00:22 Meet Reva Feldman
  • 02:21 Meet Jane Riley, Mike Renner, and Karl Fippinger
  • 05:37 Why Codes Are Important in Home Rebuilding
  • 11:09 The Importance of Correct Updated Information in Disaster
  • 17:34 What We Can Do Better
  • 27:08 TakeAway: Helping the Decision-Makers, Authentic Leadership, and Land Management Issues

 

Twitter:

Rebuilding after a disaster requires flexibility, vulnerability in leadership, and a focus on prevention, not just recovery. Tune in as ICC’s Karl Fippinger and 4Leaf’s Jane Riley and Mike Renner emphasize the critical role of building codes, consistent communication, and addressing unique community needs. #Recover #Rebuild #Reimagine #podcast #wildfire #DisasterRecovery #AfterTheFire #2024WildfireLeadershipSummit #WildfireRebuilding #BuildingCodes #CommunicationInCrisis #FlexibleLeadership #VulnerableLeadership #LandManagement #PreventionOverRecovery

 

Quotes:

02:07 “I have walked in the shoes of many of you in this room, and one of the things that I have learned is to rely on the people who can help me and ask for help.” —Reva Feldman

04:47 “People who’ve lost their homes, for the most part, do not intend to be builders or designers of homes. These are things that they are forced to do after they’ve lost a property.” —Reva Feldman

07:34 “The key to building that resilience capability and capacity in the built environment is for communities to embrace this concept of mitigation.” —Karl Fippinger

11:43 “Give yourself some slack. Many of those members, many of those leaders, have also lost homes are also evacuated, and are also going through their own trauma.” —Jane Riley

12:45 “You’re going to repeat yourselves, a lot. Part of what you’re going to be doing is saying the same information over and over and over again and if you get sick of doing that, you’re doing the wrong thing.”  —Jane Riley 

13:09 “Having a primary source of information, the real source of information is so critically important. Disinformation and misinformation thrive in a void of the correct information.” —Jane Riley

17:57 “Learn daily and make sure 100% to be sensitive and treat the first person just like the last person.” —Mike Renner

21:56 “It’s going to move as fast as it possibly can, but we can’t miss the major milestones and points of safety along the way to make sure that it happens right.” —Karl Fippinger

25:26 “It’s important to have a plan in place for what you’re going to do when a disaster strikes because this isn’t going to stop. This is going to keep happening. It’s important to have that plan into place, but it’s equally important to be able to pivot and do what you need to do in the time.” —Jane Riley

26:18 “In order for your staff to be nimble, it has to come top down. Give your staff the freedom to do that and know they’re not going to be penalized for thinking outside of the box.” —Mike Renner 

28:19 “You got to be able to get out there and be able to assess the situation, not only from the building standpoint but the infrastructure standpoint, so that your decision-makers have the opportunity to make decisions and know what’s facing them in terms of their top priorities.” —Karl Fippinger

29:43 “An authentic leader who’s vulnerable and who’s willing to talk about their feelings and let it show— that’s so important to me as a resident as well as a follower of that leader.” —Jane Riley 

30:04 “One day, we can stop talking about rebuilding after wildfires, and talk more about preventing. But we have huge land management issues, and when we start solving that, we can avoid some of these disasters.” —Mike Renner

 

Meet the Moderator

Reva Feldman, Former City Manager, Malibu (2016-2021) / Advisor, After the Fire USA

portrait of Reva FeldmanReva Feldman has more than twenty years of experience in public service. She has been with the City since 2005, serving as the Assistant City Manager and Administrative Services Director before her appointment as City Manager in May 2016. Reva brings with her strong leadership skills, knowledge, experience, and a deep dedication to the community.

 

 

 

 

 

Meet the Panel

Meet Jane Riley, Director of Advance Planning and Housing at 4Leaf Inc.

Jane Riley has been a planning professional for more than 30 years. She served as Planning Manager for the County of Sonoma through the 2017 Tubbs Fire, 2019 Kincade Fire, and lost family properties in the 2018 Carr Fire. She was first introduced to 4Leaf through their shared recovery work in Sonoma and retired from the county to join 4Leaf in 2020. She currently serves as 4Leaf’s Director of Advance Planning and Housing and assists in planning related fire work recovery efforts wherever needed. 

Connect with 4Leaf Inc.: 

 

Meet Mike Renner, Director of Development Recovery Services at 4Leaf Inc.

Mike is the Director of Development Recovery Services for 4Leaf. He’s a seasoned Director with more than 20 years of industry experience serving clients throughout the US in the scopes of planning, building, code enforcement, and post-disaster development recovery services. He leads all infrastructure creation and implementation of 4Leaf’s development recovery programs. The programs provide permitting assistance to communities impacted by wildfires. Currently, he’s the lead recovery efforts in Maui and he’s also overseen the recovery programs in Sta Cruz County, Sonoma County, Paradise, Jackson County, Oregon, and the city of Malibu. 

Connect with 4Leaf Inc.: 

 

Meet Karl Fippinger, Vice President of Fire and Disaster Mitigation at ICC

Karl Fippinger, CEM, PMP, is Vice President of Fire and Disaster Mitigation for the International Code Council’s Government Relations Department where he leads the Code Council’s national fire service and emergency management activities.

Fippinger brings more than 30 years of domain experience, having served as an assistant fire chief with the Occoquan-Woodbridge-Lorton Volunteer Fire Department in Prince William County, Va., and as an adjunct instructor with the Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Department in Fairfax, Va. He also brings deep experience in public and private sector emergency management across federal, state, and local disaster preparedness, mitigation, response, and recovery.

Fippinger holds the Certified Emergency Manager credential with the International Association of Emergency Managers and is a certified Project Management Professional with the Project Management Institute.

Connect with ICC:

 

Transcription:

Reva Feldman: My name is Reva Feldman. I’m actually a retired city manager from the city of Malibu, working now with Jennifer since I’ve retired, and doing a whole lot of other things. So stepping in for Dave, who unfortunately has covid, we also have Hannah who will not be on this panel because she also has covid. So hopefully, that’s the end of the covid calamities for our speakers. But I am honored to step in. I served in Malibu as city manager 16 years in the city, and was there through pretty much every kind of disaster that you could imagine. From earthquakes to mudslides, to numerous fires. I also had the honor of serving in mutual aid here in Sonoma County during the Tubbs Fire in the EOC, not realizing that just one year later in 2018, my community would be impacted by the Woolsey Fire, which is the largest natural disaster to happen in Los Angeles County. 100,000 acres burned. We evacuated 250,000 people in less than 20 hours, and lost 1,600 structures. I was not prepared for the fact that I would evacuate my entire city, including my city hall and my EOC. All of the alternative locations that we had prepared for our EOC were impacted by fire, and so we relocated to a neighboring city of Santa Monica for three weeks while our city had no power, no utilities and no communications. I have been through that. The Woolsey Fire also happened the same day as the Camp Fire in Paradise. We were the third major fire in California that day, and the last to get resources, which unfortunately impacted the amount of properties that were burned. So I have walked in the shoes of many of you in this room. And one of the things that I have learned is to rely on the people who can help me and ask for help. I’m honored to be with this panel today. We’re going to go ahead and get started. 

I’d like to start by introducing Jane Riley. Jane has been a planning professional for more than 30 years. She served as the planning manager for the County of Sonoma through the 2017 Tubbs Fire in 2019, Kincade Fire, and lost family properties in the 2018 Carr Fire. She was first introduced to 4Leaf through their shared recovery work in Sonoma, and retired from the county to join 4Leaf in 2020. She currently serves as 4Leaf Director of Advanced Planning and Housing, and assists in planning related fire recovery efforts wherever needed. Thank you, Jane. 

Mike Renner, to my right. Mike Renner is the Director of Development Recovery Services for 4Leaf. He’s a seasoned director with more than 20 years of industry experience serving clients throughout the United States in the scopes of planning, building, code enforcement and Post Disaster Development Recovery Services. He leads all infrastructure creation and implementation of 4Leaf development recovery programs. The programs provide permitting assistance to communities who have been affected by wildfires. Currently, he’s the lead permit recovery effort for the county of Maui. He has also overseen the permit recovery programs for recovery in Santa Cruz County, Sonoma County, Paradise, Jackson County, Oregon, and the city of Malibu, which is where I first met him. 

And Karl, my dear friend. Karl Fippinger is a senior executive leading advocacy for resilient codes and standards in the built environment with the nation’s fire service and emergency management leaders. He’s a 30 year veteran of fire and emergency services, having served as the Assistant Fire Chief with Occoquan-Woodbridge-Lorton Volunteer Fire Department in Prince William County, and an adjunct instructor with the Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Department in Fairfax County. He’s a certified emergency manager and serves as a member of the FEMA National Advisory Council. He brings more than 25 years of public and private sector experience in federal, state and local disaster preparedness, response, recovery and mitigation. And I would say that he is all things codes, which is an incredibly useful thing to have when we were talking about recovery. 

So Karl, the first question that I’d like to ask has to do with what we have all faced, helping people recover, people who’ve lost their homes, for the most part, do not intend to be builders or designers of homes. These are things that they are forced to do after they’ve lost a property, and I have seen firsthand. That is incredibly overwhelming. There are a million decisions that have to be made when you start to design a home. There’s a lot of technical and scientific things you have to know about grading and engineering, debris removal and how many doorknobs do you need. And you know what are the codes that have changed so I’d like to turn to you, Karl, and talk about why codes are so important when we’re talking about rebuilding. How can we do a good job, or a better job of helping our communities recover and understand the codes that are necessary to adhere to? 

Karl Fippinger: Thanks Reva. And good morning, everyone. Really quick, just to add on to what Reva said about 9/11. I’m a Pentagon First Responder as well too. And not only do I want to pay homage to those lost on 9/11, but also spend a moment to think about those responders that we continue to lose today due to cancers and other illnesses related to 9/11 that continue to affect our community. So to answer the question here really quickly, in terms of, why are building codes important? One of the experiences that I had here in California, I actually worked as an extension of Chris Smith’s team here doing individual assistance recovery work for FEMA back in 2018 timeframe. Sonoma Mendocino areas, lived in Santa Rosa for several months while doing that. So my heart goes out to those of you. There have been many fires here in California. I spent a great amount of time in Hawaii, in Maui in particular, over the last several months. And the reason why building codes are important, they’re a compendium of hundreds of years worth of information, data and research. And frankly, just to put it out there, hard lessons that we’ve learned from previous incidents like the ones I just talked about, some names that may resonate with you. Include the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire in New York City. Long time ago, the Beverly Hills Supper Club Fire. Loma Prieta earthquake, which I know not all of you are familiar with. Hurricane Andrew in Florida which has resulted in a massive change in building codes over the last 25 years since that particular incident happened. The Camp Fire here in Butte. I just paused to remember that in terms of the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, many changes have come from all of those incidents. 

So really, the key to building resilience, that’s kind of what we’re here for. And trying to figure out both how we prevent, mitigate and become stronger around these disasters, the key to building that resilience capability and capacity in the built environment is really for communities to embrace this concept of mitigation. And what I mean by that is helping to prevent or limit certain things from happening that contribute to major and catastrophic disasters. So some resilience examples, just to put that in focus for you, retrofit. We talked about Loma Prieta, other earthquakes here in California across the country. Retrofit of soft story style homes and buildings right here in California, Bolt and Brace programs are one of them. Particularly here in the Bay Area, moving further forward towards realizing that concept of what we call functional recovery. So not just to have a building serve you so that it doesn’t collapse and we don’t have loss of life immediately following an earthquake, but to make that building even more resilient as it goes along. And actually have it become livable only with some minor interventions to the building to be able to maintain all your utilities and the function, and use of that building after an earthquake. 

Solar, PV, energy storage systems, batteries. You may have heard a lot about those particularly even in your own homes. Technology is moving at a very, very rapid pace in the country today and throughout the world. An example being energy storage systems, a battery backup system in your home. >If you don’t have modern building codes written to 2018 or later, you get no benefit from all of the good data, research and technology that we have around energy storage systems. So if your communities or your home was built prior to 2018 and you’re not on those code sets, and you go to get energy storage built on your house today, unless you have those codes, you’re not going to get the benefit of what we know. We’re here for wildfire. But let me just start with recurrent flooding, number one risk in the country. See, Chris nodding his head there. He knows these: water intrusion, high wind, seismic, wildfire. So specifically, the Code Council’s International Wildland Urban Interface Code, when we talk about hardening homes, doing retrofits, defending homes and buildings from ember intrusion, direct flame impingement, and preventing interior and home building fires from reaching the wildland urban interface. That’s why codes are important. Answer to question number one for you. 

Reva Feldman: Thank you, Karl. I think one of the things that we haven’t really touched on yesterday, and obviously just getting started today is the flood after fire, which we have seen over and over again. It was a big issue here in the Sonoma area after the Tubbs fire. We were impacted by that in Los Angeles County, and we’re seeing that more and more. So I appreciate you touching on floods. Not just floods that didn’t have a fire associated with it, but what happens after a fire. We also saw the Thomas fire in Ventura County. So Jane, I want you to think back to your time in Sonoma working with people who are incredibly traumatized after a disaster. I call it community wide trauma. Jennifer has a great term for it, which is firebrain. So we know that it’s really hard to take in information, complex, and new information when you’re dealing with a trauma. And so can you talk about some of the tools that you have seen that help people understand codes, building codes, all the rules associated with rebuilding. 

Jane Riley: Thank you. There are so many rules associated with rebuilding. First, I think just recognizing the difficulty of the space that everyone is in at that point. The community leaders have struggled to put together an assistance center to help folks who are very traumatized. Information may not all be consistent even from the people that you’re coming to get information from at the beginning. I think it’s really important not just to communicate carefully and purposefully with your own leaders, but also to give yourself some slack. Because many of those members, many of those leaders have also lost homes or also evacuated, and are also going through their own trauma while they’re trying to deal with everyone else’s trauma. So I think that’s just a really important thing to keep in mind. There are too many rules, and you can’t try and explain all the rules to someone. This is all Karl’s fault. There are far too many rules. They’re not all there to serve a good purpose. 

I’m not dealing with building codes. I’m not talking about building code. I’m a planner, right? I’m talking about some of the zoning code stuff. I’m talking about some of the stuff that doesn’t serve the public purpose. I’m talking about some of the requirements that your HOA might have for review of your dwelling, whatever. We need to get over it. We need to get out of our own way. We need to get rid of some of those rules. So those are not the kinds of things that I’m going to try to explain to someone in the middle of a crisis when they’re trying to find housing for themselves and figure out how they’re going to rebuild their own house. I think it’s going to be different for everyone. You’re going to have to realize that you’re going to repeat yourselves. You’re going to repeat yourselves a lot, and that’s just part of what you’re going to be doing, saying the same information over and over again. And if you get sick of doing that, too bad that you’re doing the wrong thing. You need to recognize that that’s something you’re going to have to do. I’m going to echo so much. I served under James Gore who spoke just a minute ago, and so I’m probably going to echo a lot of the stuff that he said. But having a primary source of information, that’s the real source of information. The official website is so critically important. And being on top of it, assigning people who are going to get on top of it and updating it with the real information all the time is really critical. Disinformation and misinformation thrive in a void of the correct information. 

And so being able to have that stuff out there consistently as quickly as you can, it’s really, really hard. There’s no staff that are ready to do it. If you’ve got a continuum of operations plan in place, great. Make sure this is a big part of it. And any other materials that you’re putting out there need to link back to that website. I’m not saying not to use all the social media, things that we have now that reach all the different populations that we need to reach. You’d have to have bilingual materials or trilingual materials. You have to have all that stuff out there, but you need to link back to that official website or source of information that you’re using. And just a cautionary tale about printed materials, once you print it, it’s out there and you can’t get it back. And somebody is going to show up two years later and wave a flier in your face and say, but this is official, and it came from you. So you always put a date on there, and always put a disclaimer on there, and always put your code to get to that website that has the official up to date information on there. We do need to put things in printed form for people who don’t access websites, and that’s just something that can follow you for a long time. And I think Mike has some things to say about this, so I hope I don’t take everything that Mike plans on talking about. People are going to be ready to rebuild in 30 days, and there are going to be people who are not ready to even think about rebuilding for two and a half years, or longer. You need to be ready to come back and start that information process over again at any time, because it all depends on where people are in their recovery process.

Reva Feldman: Thank you, Jane. I appreciate those tidbits. And I think I can’t emphasize the communication part of not just rebuilding, but anything having to do with recovery. You cannot provide enough information to a community that’s been impacted by a disaster, and you have to have meeting after meeting. I know in Maui, that’s something you all have done really well. I know for the staff doing that, it’s exhausting because they are also going through this trauma. Also may have lost their own family or their own homes. And so there, you have to keep an eye on them. But again, having meeting after meeting in different places, meeting people where they’re at, we can’t just expect people to come to a government building to get it. We need to go to where they are, whether it’s in places of worship, or schools, or community centers, whatever it is where they are, we have to go to get them this information. And Jane’s pointing out about giving out printed material. Again, you don’t want that to happen. And so having up to date information available on your website where it’s easy to navigate and expect to tell the same thing over to the same people over and over. 

So Mike, if you can talk a little bit about some of the things that you certainly are seeing and you have seen in the communities that you have helped. And for those of you who aren’t familiar with bringing in consultants after recovery, it is a huge help to staff county and city and state staff. I don’t think there is a government that is prepared to handle disaster recovery because you have part of your community that is recovering, and part that didn’t get impacted and they just want to go to their regular programs and do their regular things. And so companies like 4Leaf who can come in with experienced folks who know what they’re doing have worked in this space, at least for me, were a lifesaver. It was like fresh people who weren’t going through it. And so I want to thank you and your team for what you do for communities. So can you give us some advice to people who are embarking and communities that are embarking on this recovery journey, how can we help? What can we do better?

Mike Renner: That’s a big question. So we have to remember that everybody’s situation is unique, like you talked about, Karl and Jane. There are other businesses, like Maui for example. Lahaina Kulu were affected, but it’s a whole county to still run, permit and help. The idea of what we can do better, I think, is that we just learn daily. And we make sure 100% to be sensitive and treat every person, the first person, just like the last person. So everyone’s going through their journey. Yeah, that’s a thinker. I think just learning daily and just going through the process, making sure, like Jane talked about, be careful with the material you put out. Social media can be a real killer. And something AWI has done in Mahina, specifically in the mayor’s office, is that consistent, constant weekly outreach where you’re getting the information first hand from the horse’s mouth. There’s constant correct information coming out. And I think that was a lesson from Maui, and based on other places we’ve been that did not continue that outreach. So that’s a huge one.

Reva Feldman: And I think touching on the issue of official information and correct information, people talk to their neighbors. And their neighbor says, well, this is how I did it. And then they don’t realize when they come in that they may not be able to. I know one of the big challenges we had relating to changes of codes and rebuilding older homes in the Malibu area is clearance for the fire department. And we had a lot of homes that were built so many years ago that their driveways were eight feet wide. They could barely fit a car up. And so we were faced with this challenge of, how do we help these people rebuild on their lot when we know it’s not safe, and we just lost it to a fire? And so one of the things that we were very proactive on as a city was working with the fire department and up to the state to make sure that we could find exceptions that would work. And so I was going to turn to you, Karl, and see if you have any other suggestions or ideas about that, how do we work around the rules to help people get back into their homes?

Karl Fippinger: I think first and foremost, one of the things I came to mind while Mike was speaking is that, I don’t want to be cool here, but I want to say leverage an organization like After The Fire. This is a trusted group that is in here that knows through, again, having learned those hard lessons like, what is important? I think Jane hit on it. I think I hit some topics. Mike certainly did. The key is trust and getting in early. But not too early, and making sure that you’re in. Putting yourself in the shoes of the people that are experiencing this trauma right now, right here, and being able to say, you know what? We’ve walked in your shoes. I understand what you need. But how can we help you in your specific situation? And we talk about some of the work that’s happening with the Development Services Administration, the building officials, and the office that Mike is leading. We know that they’re very tight shop in terms of being wired for efficiency in a blue sky environment. But when it becomes a gray or a black sky where we have big incidents happening, we know that they’re going to need help, and they’re going to need qualified help that understands what they’re going through right now. They are looking up the side of a mountain, and they’re scared. Their home, their family, their friends, other people in the community are suffering and have been affected. 

So what is it that we can do? How do you time that out in terms of working around some of the constraints that we have? I would point to the example that Maui has incorporated, which is oftentimes, we see this idea of trying to expedite rebuilding. And what you want to do is you want to encourage that rebuilding process and get it moving as fast as you can to get people back on their properties. But you don’t want to do that at the cost or expense of safety, and making sure that we do this right. So I think it was a very open process that Mike was involved with and other members of the team. I’ve experienced it too where we were talking about this expedited residential permitting and making sure that, yes, it’s going to move as fast as it possibly can. But we can’t miss the major milestones and points of safety along the way to make sure that it happens right, and that we don’t repeat what just happened or other hazards that might face us in the future. I think it’s leveraging that knowledge. Having a trusted group like you’ve got here at ATF and in other places to come in that understand that, understanding in the case of Hawaii and Maui. The culture where you’re going to be. Understanding that you are an outsider, and how do I fit and earn trust, respect and confidence here, and demonstrate leadership through support? So that’s what I would recommend. 

Reva Feldman: And turning to you, Jane. I wanted to pose a similar question of maybe some things that you saw relating not just to fire access, but perhaps water flow or other infrastructure challenges that needed to be brought up to code as part of rebuilding. Because I know that’s something that a lot of us face.

Jane Riley: Infrastructure. Absolutely. There are so many challenges with rebuilding, and every community has been different. And we had areas in Sonoma County where infrastructure was a huge constraint. And large swaths of Maui where infrastructure is a huge constraint, and each approach is different. You have to get creative. You have to think outside the box. You have to not apply all those same regulations that you’ve always applied, not talking about the safety regulations. I’m talking about some of the other policies and local, maybe codes and procedures safety. Safety is one thing. But making the HOA or the neighbor happy with what your roofline looks like might be something completely different. You’re not going to make everyone happy. But back to infrastructure, there are different ways to get people back on their property in a timely manner. And if you have to say, all right, everybody lives in RVs and has your tanks pumped. That’s fine, as long as we know that you’re out there, and that’s what you’re doing. Then that’s what we’re going to do. It can take many, many years to replace infrastructure that you need to replace, and so you’ve got to do something different in the meantime. Is there enough money to replace that infrastructure? 

I can tell you that Maui County’s problem is larger than the money that the county is going to see coming in to fix all the things that have been going wrong for millennia. There’s just too big of a problem. How do you do the best you can do? How do you get people back into their homes? Getting people back into their homes is, number one, I think you’re going to get there. But I also want to talk a little bit about it. I’m surprised James Gore didn’t talk more about the pursuit of imperfect progress. And that is, you have to be ready to pivot. You have to identify a change that needs to be made so that you can get your people back in their homes. And you have to make that change. And don’t wait to make that change until you have a whole plan of all the changes in your code that you’re going to need to make. Or all the different policies that you’re going to need to change. Identify what you need to do, and start to do it. Start at the beginning. I probably took six or eight ordinances. Do you remember, Jennifer, how many we did in Sonoma County? It was like every other week, we took a new ordinance because we were moving, and we would discover new things all the time. And you have to be nimble. You have to be able to pivot and do the next thing. And so I think it’s really important to have a plan in place for what you’re going to do when a disaster strikes, because this isn’t going to stop, folks. This is going to keep happening. It’s really important to have that plan into place. But it’s equally important to be able to pivot and do what you need to do in the time.

Reva Feldman: I think that’s an important thing to remember that we have bureaucracies that we have to work through, and you have staff that are used to being those bureaucrats, and government staff are not always known to be the most nimble and thinking outside the box. So as leaders of our organizations, I think that’s something that’s very important to communicate. And if you’re having challenges, that’s why you have Mike Renner. You call him, and he finds a way. But Mike, turning to you, I wanted to see if you had any examples to pivot on what Jane was talking about to add to that?

Mike Renner: Yeah, I think the only thing I would add is that, in order for your staff to be nimble, it has to come top down. So with leadership like James Gore and Tennis Wick, and that ability to just pivot on a dime, and you give your staff the freedom to do that, and know they’re not going to be penalized for thinking outside of the box is a huge thing. 

Reva Feldman: There’s always going to be one offs. We’re going to come up with these policies and these procedures, and then you’re going to have one person come in with this completely unique situation. Obviously in a place like Maui or in Malibu where you’re dealing with coastal issues and erosion, ocean issues, you’re going to have to have special ways to address that as well. So every area has its unique challenges, and so I think being able to work through some of that. Any last thoughts before we close?

Karl Fippinger: Expect the unexpected. Be ready to pivot, but always stay true to your principles. You gotta have those guiding principles in terms of recovery, and what it’s going to take to actually get the job done. But be flexible and build in time for all the crises and the emergencies of the day, because it’ll follow that 90/10 rule that we talk about quite a bit. Which is 10% of the things that you’re going to face during the day are going to take up 90% of your time. Be prepared to be seconded and thirded to a certain degree by folks to build your bench depth early and be ready to pivot to make sure that you’ve got to be in a meeting, that you can have your number two. And if your number two has got to be in a meeting, that you got your number three ready to go. That may be something you’d have to do on the fly because we don’t have the ability to build that out during blue sky days. But know who your friends are, and be able to call them early and often to be able to come and help you. The last thing that I’ll talk about in terms of the building codes piece is, make sure that you’ve got a capability to do your preliminary damage assessments of the built environment right away. I know that this was a difficulty given the catastrophic damage in Maui and in other places. You have to be able to get out there, and be able to assess the situation. Not only from the building standpoint, but the infrastructure standpoint so that your decision makers have the opportunity to make decisions and know what’s facing them in terms of their top priorities. So that’s what I’d leave you with. Jane?

Jane Riley: My takeaway, I think, I’m going to be going back to leadership and what we’re really looking for. The importance of having the right leadership in place. And from a couple of viewpoints, one is, and I know we’ve talked about this in this group yesterday and earlier today, putting people on your team who may not agree with you. You don’t want a bunch of yes people. You want people on your team that are going to say, hey, that’s a bad idea. Or hey, we may need to do that. We’re going to have to be really sensitive about the way we do it. And here’s why you want people on your team that are going to say NO to you. And the other thing, I personally have gone through the fire experiences. I find it really, really important. And I found this in Sonoma, and I found it in Maui County, vulnerability. When your leaders can stand in front of a group like this, like Gore did earlier, and cry with your residents, with the people that are affected by this trauma, that means a lot. And that goes a long way to building trust. I don’t mean in an inauthentic way. I mean a really authentic leader who’s vulnerable, and who’s willing to talk about their feelings, and really let it show. That’s so important to me as a resident, as well as a follower of that leader. 

Reva Feldman: Thank you. Really good points. Mike, any closing thoughts?

Mike Renner: I wanted to close with, hats off to JENNIFER GRAY in bringing all these thought leaders into this room. And one day, I think we can stop talking about rebuilding after wildfires, and we talk more about prevention. That’s something that I think will be touched on, but we have huge land management issues. And when we start solving that, I think we can avoid some of these disasters.

Reva Feldman: Wonderful. Thank you all, appreciate it. 

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